Talk:Aphex Twin

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Smojphace has never been an alias

I don't disagree that at least one of the provided citations names "Smojphace" as an alias. But the source is simply wrong - the Smojphace EP was released as AFX, and Smojphace has never been used an alias of RDJ. The rest of the article as well as the discography confirms this. Vertigo Acid (talk) 23:00, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Vertigo Acid: Regardless of the rightness or wrongness, this insignificant nickname/alias isn’t sufficiently noteworthy to include here. I think you can WP:boldly remove it. Cambial — foliar❧ 23:54, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

James "known" for working in jungle

I am re-opening discussion begun by Dracodrago1330 over at this archived post, and re-posting my current response: The following 6 sources Cambial Yellowing is employing here do not support the current assertion that James "is known for his work in electronic styles such as... jungle."

The Dummy article refers to "his go-to touchstones – electro, acid, jungle". Describes these genres as touchstones, not genres he is known for working in. Therefore, does not support assertion that he is known for working in jungle.
The Times mentions one track of "futuristic jungle", but nowhere suggests that James is "known for his work in electronic styles such as ... jungle". Does not support assertion he is known for working in jungle.
Passion states that "He has devised his own singular versions of ambient, drum & bass, jungle, acid house, and Detroit techno." Unless one would also argue that James is also known for making Detroit techno or acid house, then this vague statement about "his own versions" doesn't support the article assertion that he is "known" for working in jungle. Alternately, we would have to add these genres to an infobox alongside jungle.
EB states that ""few other electronic composers have managed to draw on so many distinct styles... with Aphex Twin, ambient, techno, IDM, acid and jungle aren’t just stylistic decisions; they’re palettes." This states that his work draws on various genres. Does not state that James is known for working in jungle. Does not support sentence.
The cited older version of his AllMusic bio describes the HAB EPs as "a *fusion* of experimental music and jungle," not a jungle release. This conditions the subsequent sentence about "forays" into "acid-jungle and experimental music," which likewise does not describe any specific recording as jungle. Nowhere does it suggest that James is known for working in jungle. Does not support sentence.
The sole remaining source is the FACT Mag source which states that he has "carved out his own space in the history of electronic music, spanning ambient, jungle, techno." This one is more ambiguous. An analogue: if I said "the Beatles' career has spanned music hall, sound collage, folk-pop, proto-metal, and Hindustani music".. this would be accurate. But it would not support the statement that the Beatles are "known" for their work in music hall, sound collage, or any of these genres. Therefore I conclude that this source also fails to support the current sentence.

These 6 citations are used to give a misleading impression in the article lead that James is "known" for working in jungle. The sources don't support this reading. They all seem to suggest that jungle is simply one of many styles that James has drawn on, not a genre he is known for working in. Kkollaps (talk) 16:42, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I’ve removed the reference to being “known for” the styles in which the artist produces music. If we are applying your very close approach to the sourcing, what is the citation for the subject being “known for” his idiosyncratic work in electronic music? Cambial — foliar❧ 21:07, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You're right! Another assertion without evidence. I'm wondering why you replaced sources like Dummy and EB, which only state that he has drawn on these styles, or the Passion of the Weiss article, which also includes genres that can only reasonably be interpreted as inspirations (i.e. his own version of "Detroit techno" would not itself be classified as Detroit techno, would it? Does that mean his own version of jungle would, by contrast, be considered jungle?).

Also, why have you moved "IDM" down in the infobox and blocked any mention of it in the lead, when it is by far the genre term most associated with his work? Kkollaps (talk) 21:56, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You give no reason for your belief that I’ve somehow blocked mention of IDM, nor your belief that it is by far the genre term most associated with his work. It is worth referring to, but we should do so in plain language appropriate to an encyclopaedia. Cambial — foliar❧ 01:41, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You've now reverted an edit using the "figurehead" because "Exactly one source refers to subject as a figurehead of techno and IDM." This is a lie. Both Selector and NPR refer to him as a figurehead of IDM (Selector does not mention techno). That's 2 sources. And every other one of the 8 sources listed uses a term that is broadly synonymous with "figurehead":

"the changing face of intelligent dance music" - Clash
"IDM – of which the producer is surely the most emblematic and recognizable character" - Lampoon
"IDM and ambient techno godfather" - Vice
"spearheading the so-called IDM wave ... cemented himself as the leading figure of... " - Far Out
"Aphex Twin is a name synonymous with the intriguingly named genre of IDM" - Resident Advisor
"a half-dozen of the style's most crucial artists: Aphex Twin, ..... - AllMusic IDM overview

There is no justification for downplaying him as merely "associated" and negating his central role. 8 sources explicitly identifying him as a central figure in the genre is more than sufficient for the vocabulary I provided. You have previously made edits to remove the term "IDM" from the article lead and remove it from the infobox. I appreciate you feel aversion toward the term and that, given the amount of time you've spent on it, you understandably feel some degree ownership over the page, but there's no justification for this edit to be watered down. Kkollaps (talk) 01:51, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also, re: "You give no reason for your belief that I’ve somehow blocked mention of IDM" ...... here is one of several concrete examples of you baselessly removing IDM from the infobox, despite the fact that it was sourced in the article body (musical style section) at the time Kkollaps (talk) 02:00, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree that the terms you refer to are synonymous with the word “figurehead”. The phrase closely associated is not seeking to downplay anything, but simply using encyclopaedic language, because we are seeking to write an encyclopaedia article about the subject, not advertise his real or imagined status as a figurehead of a “movement”. Your claim of ownership is without merit. Cambial — foliar❧ 02:14, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Come on dude, you tried to include the phrase "the MDMA Mozart" in the opening paragraph. 😭 Nobody is buying the "encyclopaedic" angle. What more neutral phrase would you prefer to "figurehead"? Crucial figure? Most famous exponent? Pioneer? I'm all ears. Kkollaps (talk) 02:20, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The reference to Mozart was with attribution to the source - actually several sources - that referred to him as such “techno Mozart” “mdma Mozart” et c. Such a reference would indeed be silly with no mention of the attribution. Very numerous other sources refer to him as primarily a techno artist, including those using “Mozart of” and similar terms, not as IDM. This will work much better if you assume good faith rather than discussing what “nobody”, i.e. just you, does or does not believe about other’s motives.

“and he has been characterised as the pioneer of the genre intelligent dance music (IDM)” seems reasonable. (Or should it be “a”?) Maybe “the pioneering artist of” ? Cambial — foliar❧ 02:43, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Mozart phrase was superficial and silly even with attribution, but we'll move on from that. How about "a pioneering figure"? Kkollaps (talk) 02:48, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is no reference to a “movement” in the sources you added. Your keen desire to hew closely to the sources apparently extends only to phrases and terms you dislike. I’ve removed the unsourced and ridiculous reference to a IDM movement. Cambial — foliar❧ 03:20, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lol. Please clearly explain the difference between a musical genre and a musical movement. I stupidly assumed they were synonyms, but the distinction seems very obvious to you. Thanks in advance! Kkollaps (talk) 03:58, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]